Michelle: Today, on the Barbara Rainey Podcast…

Barbara Rainey: We've got to come back to the Scripture as the yardstick and for all of our decisions, and so many of us, as parents, we think we know it, but when it gets down to parenting our kids as teenagers, all of a sudden, we go, "Do I really know it as well as I think I do?"

Michelle: Welcome to the Barbara Rainey Podcast from Ever Thine Home, where we’re dedicated to helping you experience God in your home. Thanks for listening!

Parenting is hard work. And parenting teens comes with its joys and challenges. Today Barbara is in the studio, along with her husband, Dennis. They’re the parents of six, so they understand something about teenagers.

Dennis and Barbara say it can be helpful to have a small group of friends in the same stage of life.

Barbara: It's really hard to raise kids alone because you can so often second-guess yourself, and there is something about the comfort of another parent who is dealing with a child who is doing something similar. It may not be the exact same thing but some similar experience of rebellion or disobedience that makes you feel like you're not going crazy.

Dennis: Well, it's just fun to know that you don't have the only sinful, selfish …

Barbara: … child on the planet.

Dennis: Yes, and many times, in raising children today we get isolated, and we think, you know what? My daughter is the only one – the only one who has ever thrown a temper tantrum on the hardwood floor in the kitchen. No other kid in our church would do that. But when you get in a small group, you find out that some people have – well, they have children who are maybe acting out some behaviors that are even worse than your child.

Michelle: Parents experience the truth of Proverbs 22:15, which says that “Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child.”

Barbara: It's like a disease that it seems that once they become teenagers, whether it's at 12 or 13 or 14, depending on when they actually hit that phase, it's like it overtakes their mind and their body and nothing you can do is going to prevent them from having this disease of wanting to be foolish at some level. Now, some are clearly more foolish than others, but it is just part of a child becoming a teenager – they're going to be foolish at some level.

Dennis: I, frankly, liked the teenage years. I personally enjoyed the teenage years better than the little-guy years, because you could relate to them and begin to relate to them as adults. But some of the issues – well, I can tell you from firsthand experience, they wore us out and wore Barbara down and me, as well, as we attempted to finish the process of helping them leave the nest. In fact, Barbara shared with me something that I want her to share with our listeners about young eagles, that I think really illustrates a part of the answer to what's going on with teenagers today.

Barbara: Yes, there was an article in our local paper recently about eagles, and they were just reporting on where they nest and how they hatch their babies here. But, anyway, the point of the article that was so fascinating was that these baby eaglets are in the nest for a long time, and they are up and walking around in the nest almost from the time they hatch. They walk out on the end of the branches, and they appear to be very nimble and very sure of foot up there on the heights of these trees. But they said they stay in the next for 30 to 60 days, a long time. And the point is they should have stayed longer, because from the time they make their first flight, most of them don't live through their first flight; that they're not really strong enough when they do finally leave the nest and over 60 percent of them don't survive the first flight.

Michelle: Young birds that think they’re ready to fly but aren’t yet might sound familiar to parents of teenagers.

Barbara: So often teenagers think they are ready to fly before they really are ready to fly. And parents know that, but the kids don't listen.

Dennis: And the parents are the ones who need to determine when the little eagle should begin flying. And I think part of what we want to do is help parents stay engaged, stay involved, with the little eagle as he or she walks around the edge of the next and make sure they're together watching and paying attention so that as they do let them begin to take their first flight, it will have a chance of being more successful than those eagles.

Michelle: I want to play something for you from an interview that’s over 20 years old now. Dennis, Barbara, and their friend Bob Lepine were talking about this very subject. Dennis read an example—a purely hypothetical case study—from a Bible study written for parents of teens. Let’s listen.

Again, this is from the early 2000’s when teenagers used to hang out at shopping malls.

Dennis: It begins, first of all – I'm not going to read the first part – with a mom and a dad talking about, "Well, gee, our daughter is really pushing back on us being involved in her life, and this seems kind of early for her." And as they are interacting around that, the daughter, Lauren, walks into the room, and she says …

Bob Lepine: … did you have any choice over the names for this study?

Dennis: Whatever name seems to be similar to any of our children …

Bob: … to a Rainey child …

Dennis: … Laura – would just be happenstance.

Barbara: Purely coincidental?

Dennis: Purely coincidental.

Bob: The names have been modified.

Barbara: To protect the innocent – or maybe not so innocent.

Dennis: Only slightly, only slightly and, you know, if the shoe fits, Laura, wear it. Lauren said, "I'm going to the mall this afternoon with Alyssa. Her mom says, "Really? I don't remember any discussion about us going to the mall." Lauren – "It's the mall, Mom. I didn't realize I had to ask permission for everything I do."

Now, do you notice how naturally the attitude comes through?

Bob: You were able to do that so comfortably.

Dennis: It just flows, it flows. Her mom says, "And how were you planning to get there, young lady?" Her daughter – "Alyssa's brother is going to take us, and we're going to have you pick us up." Her mom – "Thanks for asking." Dad steps in – "Hold it a minute, wait a second. I'm not so sure I like the idea of you two going to the mall without a parent. I'm not sure it's safe for girls your age." Lauren – "But, Dad, alllllllll my friends do it. We're going to meet them there." Dad – "Let me talk to your mother about it, and we'll decide." The daughter – "Why are you always so strict? None of the other kids' parents seem to have a problem with this." Dad – "Your mother and I will discuss it, and we'll get back to you" – notice the patience of the father.

Bob: Yes.

Barbara: I'm impressed.

Dennis: It didn't happen in reality, but it happened right here. Here it goes – finally, the daughter – "Well, hurry up. I've got to call Alyssa and let her know." Lauren exits in a cloud of dissatisfaction. Mom – "Is this how I acted with my parents when I was that age?"

SFX: whoosh back to reality, music stops

Michelle: (with a chuckle) Again, you just heard Dennis and Barbara Rainey, talking to Bob Lepine a couple of decades ago, in an era when malls were places teenagers actually wanted to go. Okay, maybe I’m being too hard on the malls. But possibly, you would still have a conversation like that with your teen.

But the basic principles are still the same. Teens often do feel overly independent before it’s time. And their attitudes toward parental oversight, well… let’s just say there can be some tension!

Parents can recognize the patterns. Barbara says it’s important, not only to discuss it with other parents, but also to turn to God’s word, the Bible, for answers.

Barbara: We've got to come back to the Scripture as the yardstick and for all of our decisions, and so many of us, as parents, we think we know it, but when it gets down to parenting our kids as teenagers, all of a sudden, we go, "Do I really know it as well as I think I do?" I wish that we had had a group of parents that we met with on a regular basis. It would have provided so much sanity for us to have had other parents that we could have talked to and said, "Here is what we're facing with one of our kids. What do you think we should do? Let's look at what the Bible has to say about this together." And it's like a coach with a team. We all need to be coached, and I think it would have been wonderful if we'd had it.

Michelle: Let’s head back to that conversation, that situation Dennis described.

SFX and Music, EQ, Compression

Dennis: "To help your children grow up to walk with God, you need to take the initiative to remain involved during the adolescent years." And what we need to make sure we do is that we stay involved all the way to the finish line. And that means through adolescence – all the way past high school graduation so they can make the transition to adulthood.

Bob: So if we were in a parenting group together, and we had just read the case study where Lauren is trying to get to the mall with her friend and have everybody's world revolve around her, and she's got a little bit of an attitude, and maybe there is even a little bit of disrespect in what Lauren said …

Dennis: Uh-huh, that's right.

Bob: So coach us – you've been down that path now. What do you do as a mom or a dad when that kind of a scenario presents itself?

Barbara: I get to go first?

Bob: Yes, you get to go first. You called dad, right, and said "Here, honey."

Barbara: I called and said, "Help."

Dennis: Well, I didn't give you one key piece of information.

Barbara: Which is?

Dennis: Lauren is 12.

Barbara: Oh, well, that makes a huge difference – a big difference in 12 and 16.

Dennis: Now, let's talk about …

Barbara: … but, seriously, there is a huge difference.

Dennis: There is, but let's talk about Lauren at 12, because this is when it starts.

Barbara: Right.

Bob: And there are a lot of kids hanging out in groups at the mall, and they're 12 years old, and they're wandering around or going to Barnes & Noble and just hanging out there, you know, and they're 12 and 13 years old, and there's no parent around.

Barbara: That's right, and that is something we wouldn't have allowed. We just – for us, personally, we really wanted to have a tighter rein on our kids when they were younger, and the mall is just not a healthy place. There are too many worldly impulses, whether it's the kids that are there, the other people that are there, the ads that are on the wall, just the materialism. There is so much of what the world has to offer that is soaked up by teenagers when they're there, and there is no parental supervision most of the time.

Bob: So would you explain to Lauren when she says, "Gee, why can't I go? All my friends get to go." Would you explain this whole concept about materialism and …

Barbara: Oh, I would probably try to explain some of that, but she probably wouldn't listen.

Bob: "Why are you guys so uptight about this thing?"

Barbara: Yeah – "It's not really going to be that bad."

Bob: "Don't you trust me?"

Barbara: Yes, and she might even say, "Well, we're Christians, Mom. Alyssa's a Christian. We're not going to do anything."

Bob: "What do you think we're going to do? Do you think we're going to go slash tires in the parking lot or what?"

Dennis: "She comes from a real good Christian home."

Barbara: And she may, but the point is that's not a good use of their time. It's not what we want them to be exposed to.

Dennis: Here is where you have to believe the Bible. I mean, if the Bible warns against idleness, what are you going to do with that? Children who are children can play in the front yard in the sandbox and be idle. That's called "play." But when they're 12, 13, 14, 15 and on up, idleness can be one of the most dangerous …

Barbara: … dangerous things.

Dennis: Yes.

Barbara: One of my favorite verses that I quoted to myself off and on through the years says, "It is good for a man to bear the yoke in his youth." And I reminded myself of that, because I wanted to steel myself against the resistance, but it's so important for these kids to be productive and active and working – all kinds of work. And there are a lot of things that 12-year-olds can do for work, and it doesn't mean getting a job at the mall or the local fast-food place, either, because they can't at 12. But these kids need to be productive, and they need to be working, and we made sure that ours were busy.

Dennis: Yes, and by the time our children were 14, they all had jobs.

Barbara: They all had jobs.

Dennis: Ten hours a week or less, but they had jobs, and by the time they were 18 and getting ready to go to college, all of them had resumes that, frankly, looked pretty good. Each of them had worked a couple of years in a job and showed some longevity and some training and ability to meet customers and build relationships. And to the best of our knowledge, that hard work hasn't hurt any of them in adulthood.

Bob: Well, back to 12-year-old Lauren, who is not listening or doesn't understand the reasons that you're giving, and is getting more frustrated. Does there come a time when you say, "That's my decision. Just abide and have a good attitude."

Barbara: Yes, there comes a time when you say that – "That's our decision, and that's the way it's going to be, and that's the end of the discussion."

Bob: And did they then go and have a good attitude and say, "Oh, okay."

Barbara: Yeah [laughs].

Bob: I detected just a note of sarcasm in your voice there.

Barbara: We would like for them to flip a switch and go, "Okay, I gave it my best shot. It didn't work, I'm going to be happy now." But that doesn't usually happen.

SFX and Music, EQ, Compression back to normal

Michelle: Dennis & Barbara Rainey there, along with Bob Lepine, playing out a “purely hypothetical” case study that of course has no basis in reality (sarcastic).

Remember the adolescent eagles? They often think they’re ready to fly before they really are. And the first hop into midair is a major wake-up call for that fool in feathers.

One of a parent’s important jobs is to help their kids get ready and know when they’re ready to fly on their own.

The verse that talks about foolishness being bound up in the heart of a child goes on to say that “the rod of discipline drives that folly far from the child.”

Parents need to decide what the rules are, stay consistent at applying them, and also be consistent with the consequences if they’re not followed. Then, as your teen matures, he or she will be more and more ready to step out on their own.

I want to encourage you to check out articles from Barbara on parenting, at BarbaraRainey.substack.com. And there you will also find her blog, more podcast episodes, and her e-books, be sure to subscribe to Barbara’s Friends & Family. It’s only 5 dollars a month. So sign up today at BarbaraRainey.substack.com.

I’m Michelle. Thank you for listening today, and we’ll see you next time, for the Barbara Rainey Podcast, from Ever Thine Home.